... I'm different from many of those in the same industry because I am trained in Psychology and a certified counsellor although I do not practise anymore. It is in me to make sense of a person's emotions through his or her behaviour and is able to pick up tiny signals many untrained eyes are unable to. Perhaps this is why my thinking is different from many people I know in the same industry in banking.
This whole credit crunch saga not only caused much pain and losses to everyone, it also opens up my eyes to human behaviour.
On just how irresponsible man can be.
When investments make money, they feel it's a given: "You are the expert what! You should know EVERYTHING!"
Ai yoh, if I know everything, I would not be here working for a bank, silly!
When investments fail, they scold you: "You didn't tell me this that day! I misplaced the prospectus/termsheet/whatever so therefore I am not responsible!"
You were the one who called and asked me what to invest since market is so good now, and now when things fail, you turn your back and put all the blame on me. I did tell every customer the same thing over again, there is no reason why I would specially leave you out. I followed the procedure and gave you the official documents to read before you made the decision. And you told me too, that you think the failure of these companies are remote!
I'm lucky not all my customers are like that. Maybe because whenever we revisit the investments, I reiterate to them all the key pointers. We discuss on the pros and cons of an investment together as a 'customer' of the bank. I look at every investment objectively and agree with my customer whenever I think some structures aren't really that good after all.
I play the role of 'middleman' between the bank and the customer. I constantly think for my customers as I would for myself, and keeps balancing this with the needs of the bank to make money to ensure my salary and my commission.
And that's why I am not a super achiever as an RM. I am only a mediocre. I am lucky my bosses recognize my work besides just sales (otherwise I would not be a VP today). And I'm lucky (and sometimes I think my customers are lucky to have me too because I don't push at the expense of them to line my pockets with money) that I have good reasonable customers.
I believe a lot depends on how you want your customers to treat you. Over the years in my dealings with my customers, I make sure they fail in their attempts to push responsibilities to me. When they say "you never tell me", I stand firm and reply I repeat everything verbatim to all the customers, in the same way. Most of the time, they do not argue, because they know they were trying to test their grounds.
After all, we are all adults. If we are not responsible in our actions, who are we to teach our descendants?
I strongly believe in mutual respect in every relationship. Whether it's a customer-banker relationship, or a husband-wife relationship, mutual respect is one very important element. When either one takes control over the relationship, it usually doesn't last long. Customers either climb over your head and shit, or the RM exploits the relationship and ruins the portfolio.
And I treat every customer differently, dependent on their character (and not by the size of their account with me). Perhaps banks can consider training RMs on understanding personality before putting them out to manage customers from all walks of life.
Oh yes, in case I get bombarded for no reason, I do not mean top RMs are people who make money at the expense of customers. I've seen really diligent RMs who are extremely busy managing customers' portfolio on what they truly believe in and ignore the bank's "Flavour of the Month". These group of RMs are the truly respectable ones and it's never easy to be like them!
15 comments:
you should combine finance and sycholoogy in your study to understand the investing behaviour of your clients. Unfortunately you have only half of it, ie , you don't understand finance especailly structured products and financial engineering. That little training you recieved would not make you an expert in finance , only a good glib tongue salesman. Should take a master in wealth management. That cert in ILP or cmfas 8 not enough.
You are so smart. How come you know I'm taking masters next year? Actually I'm not only certified with these basic certifications. It'll be ashame if I am. And no, the certs are not enough to give me a glib tongue though. I'm quite an idiot when it comes to this. Personality test showed that I'm not quite diplomatic.
I'd like to focus more on the psychology aspect on investments more than doing the sales part. So maybe I might go for a switch next year!
I disagree with your first statement that those people can make sound investment decision.Not true. Take yourself , for example. do you think you have enough knowledge and skills to dispense advice on structured products or any other investments?
Let me tell you, you are still very far from it. If a so called 'expert' on investment is incompetent how would you expect the outcome to be of reasonable basis?
People,all, both with brain and no brains rely on experts to help them. They have NO way to make INDEPENDENT decision. The adviser helps by offering an opinion, like this is good or not good for you after examining their needs and circumstances and the adviser is responsible for it. You may think it is unfair. Read section 27. If your recommendation is of 'reasonable basis' you are absolved of all blames even if the investment sours.You are protected.
Let me ask you , do you read and understand every thing in the prospectus? Do you think a professor in pyscology is able to understand waht he reads in the prospectus? Why don't you pose this question to him?
Don't be naive and defensive. The problem is with MAS and the FIs and RMs(most) too. They are in cahoot to fleece the consumers.
The CEO of HKMA aptly says that the markets are NOT created to serve the interest of the FIs and RMs or to make them rich to buy LV bags but to help the consumers to meet their financial needs.
The best outcome is win-win-win.
Now is win-win-lose(consumers)
Anonymous, Anonymous: Please read my first sentence again. I said "... investment with a clear mind, and fully aware of what they invest into." I did not say SOUND investment.
They mean two different things.
Even for me, not all my investments are sound. I have stocks stuck in Cosco, my AUD is having a really bad diarrhea. Should I blame the broker?
I can only blame myself for itchy-backside and greedy for more upside potential on Cosco, and higher interest on my Fixed Deposits. I consider my decisions as independent, because the decision was mine, and mine alone. Yes, I've heard advise from brokers and did some charting and all - they are all views. I made the decision by myself. And this, to me, is INDEPENDENT. If I don't understand anything, and I can't take the risk, I do not go into it. Period. If this is not independent, then what is? Whatever we hear today are from other people's views, whether professional, or not. Knowledge is passed from one to other. Unless you tell me all knowledge you've gathered these years are all from you, and you alone.
Independent can also mean getting advise from a 3rd party who has no vested interest in the matter. But then again, who and how can we be sure this 3rd party totally has no vested interest? That explains why I mentioned there is no way we can be 100% sure about the authenticity of each claim.
What I wrote in my blog is my personal experience as a RM. Unless you are one yourself, you are in no position to doubt what I wrote here because these are what really happens to me.
I am offended that you say I am 'far from it' because #1: you do not know me personally #2: even if you do, you do not have my resume and therefore do not know what my credentials are. I said I'm trained in Psychology and counselling. But did I say that was it. Oh, I forgot to add I am trained in ACCA too. And many others which may just make you decide to take back what you said.
Let me teach you one thing: Don't be so quick to judge when you know so little. You only make yourself look bad in my blog.
What about a CFA or MAF
Ai yo, just shut up and move on la. You guys are staring a mini forum here. Get a life!
CFA or MAF doesn't make a person more honest or with integrity. These are some basic materials of a banker.
Besides, I doubt even the experts fully understand the mechanism of those complex structures. Otherwise, why would there be so many different departments within a bank to take care of different aspects. It's just like expecting a doctor to also understand pharmaceutical knowledge, or to understand counselling, or nursing care. Quite a tall to order.....
I didn't sell Lehman but customers still come to yell at me/us for weeks, claimed that we cheated them by putting their monies in other Structured Notes and we told them it's fixed deposit! How can people be so irresponsible and twisted the whole stories when one of the structured notes in the market have defaulted. We have never sold those structured products as fixed deposit, NEVER! The procedures and process of placing fixed deposits and putting in structured notes are so different! How can customers now claimed that they thought it's FD! For FD you'll get fixed deposit advice!
Now some customers threatened us they want to commit suicide if the bank don't unwind their structured notes at no cost!
I have not been sleeping well because of all those nonsense. I regretted not putting all these customers' monies into Unit Trust which would have earned me 4x higher commission! They have never appreciate us no matter how much we thought for them.
12.08am Anonymous, you are right thAT cfa OR maf IS USELESS IF YOU are dishonest. This is precisely what has happened at the banks. No honesty plus incompetence a double whammy for the old folks. If there was honesty and competence the old folks would have been spared. The old folks would have been adviced that those toxic products were not suitable for them. For 6% return with a 100% is too much for their age. Cosco stock won't lose every thing for you, right. It is high risk yet the downside may be limited in worst case scenerio to 80-90%
The point here is the RMs weren't suitable for the job. I know of RMs who left because they had enough of unethical practices.
I am not saying you. But this is fact the minibomb saga was due to unethical practice by FIs and RMs and mAS
Hmm... Wao! Looks like all of us are victims of the circumstances... *sigh* I pity the old folks who are the real victims, and also the RMs who have been wronged and threatened and cursed. I have a colleague who got cursed by his Indonesian customers even to the extend of his whole family and future descendants!
Oh by the way, do you know that the minimum qualification to take those certifications is only O Levels?! MAS should have revised that long ago, considering that O Levels is like out-of-sync for so long!
Another RM: I think what you said is more for those educated customers. The forms for investments and fixed deposits are totally different. Just the heading is already enough to see the difference. I think human beings are like that (me included) - more often than not just sign without opening up my eyes to see. I am now more conscious though. It's my responsibility to know what I sign after all!
you are wrong to say only Minibond, High Notes, Jubilee tanked. IMO, ALL structured products tanked (cos they never lived up to what they promised), and so they went under the radar. But it is Mnibond, High Notes and Jubilee which EXPLODED so spectacularly..
You still think structured products are such a good deal for the consumers? I reckon anyoone with a half-decent financial training would AVOID such toxic products.
I once showed a bunch of CFA Charterholders the sales brochure for a structured product. NONE of them dared give me a recommendation. Why? They say its too vague, too untransparent. Many important (but inconvenient) terms were DELIBERATELY omitted from the sales brochure. Not enough information..
On the other hand, surprise, surprise, so many old, illiterate, retired, mentally retarded ppl, junior bank tellers, found it so so simple to understand these structured products sales brochures.
It is probably b'cos of such unscrupulous manipulation that Mr. Tan Kim Lian (himself a trained acturist, the most rigorous and exclusive of the financial disciplines) has come out so strongly against structured products. He reccognizes that it is no accident, no honest mistake... FIs should have known better.
It is doubly unfortuante that the structured products victims are mainly old, illiterate, poor, mentally retarded. It almost appears that FIs had deliberately targeted them as a group. On the other hand, FIs didn't dare to market structured products to the rich, well-connected, high networth private banking customers.
You boast that your boss recognizes your "analytical work". So how come after your analytical work, you decided to recommmend structured products to unsuitable people. Me thinks he treasures your psychology training as a tool to psycho customers to buy structured products, and psycho colleagues and junior staff to continue to push structured products sales.. He himself is probably also lacking either knowledge or ethics.
You also boast that you are a bank VP. I think bank management nowadays would do anything to earn extra profit.. They would give a pretty boy with little substance a grand, sophisticated title so that he can appear on TV to push bank products.
Last Anonymous (I've decided not to accept anymore comments): You have totally mistaken what I said in my entry. Simply because you do not know me.
I'm saying analytical work not related to SALES, nor revenue, but analytical work for my systems background to improve the bank's system as a whole.
Why can't we think on a broader perspective? At higher level, you no longer just sell and sell but do more things beyond that.
That is why I said I appreciate my bosses for recognising my efforts even though they are non-sales base, because non-sales are not tangible and easily assessed.
And I'm not a little boy - I've worked for 10years in this industry, and certainly not one of those 'high-flyers'.
I'm still trying to understand why would anyone read a content meant to explain matters with negative intent and cynicism. My mentioning of a VP was not to boast, but rather to explain someone like me earned that title not through GREAT performance in sales, but contributing to the bank in systems and process improvements (that was what I meant by ANALYTICAL).
See this phrase
"And that's why I am not a super achiever as an RM. I am only a mediocre. I am lucky my bosses recognize my work besides just sales (otherwise I would not be a VP today)."
Since when ANALYTICAL appears here, and it's related to SALES?!
You see, it's just so typical of a human being - choosing to read what you want to see, or pretend to understand something you dont?
Last Anonymous (I've decided not to accept anymore comments): You have totally mistaken what I said in my entry. Simply because you do not know me.
See this phrase
"And that's why I am not a super achiever as an RM. I am only a mediocre. I am lucky my bosses recognize my work besides just sales (otherwise I would not be a VP today)."
Since when ANALYTICAL appears here, and it's related to SALES?!
And since when I wrote ANALYTICAL?! Where!?
I'm saying that I appreciate my bosses for recognising my efforts to earn my promotion, even though they are non-sales based, because non-sales are not tangible and easily assessed.
I'm still trying to understand why would anyone read a content meant to explain matters with negative intent and cynicism. My mentioning of a VP was not to boast, but rather to explain someone like me earned that title not through GREAT performance in sales, but contributing to the bank in systems and process improvements.
And I'm not a little boy - I've worked for 10years in this industry, but certainly not one of those 'high-flyers'.
THANKS TEACHER! I EDITED IT!
wahahaha so funny..
why stress her / vent yr anger of her? everyone is stress here wif the mkt...
she is just a RM drawing a fixed salary, come on .. if u wish to vent yr anger, please leave yr comments to the FIss who r making the $$, makin alot of $$ .
they r just doing their job... MOVE ON , A##hole! irritating!! sigh borliao
B L
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